11 Comments
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Hope's avatar

I'm rooting for you H. P. De Veer!

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H.P. De Veer's avatar

☺️

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Fat Rabbit Iron's avatar

I've been thinking the same thing --

https://fatrabbitiron.substack.com/p/secede-church-fathers

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H.P. De Veer's avatar

Nice links in your article - might have to expand beyond Augustine

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Fat Rabbit Iron's avatar

I recommend John Chrysostom.

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Heather Louise Porter's avatar

I’ve been sitting with the spirit of old goddesses lately, seeking their counsel and wondering what the world might be like if we acted in partnership with/honor of them.

As a deeply spiritual being who is probably a pantheistic animist I regularly fall to my knees - in prayer for the hearts of humanity to reconnect rather than individuate, in awe of our earth, in awe of life itself, in gratitude and grace for health, in hope we can resurrect the former clear skies and clean waters of our precious Earth, in hope that humanity might mature and turn away from easy hatred and towards toiling cooperation...

I’m here for your series - lovely to see you back here!

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H.P. De Veer's avatar

So lovely to be back and to see this comment. You know, when you move through the veil of non-believing to believing, it’s hard to imagine why I’m not falling to my knees in awe and submission every second of every day. What a buffet we have been given

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Moomin Mama's avatar

"if you want to believe but cannot..." well yes, sometimes that's me and sometimes it's not but it recalled to mind a previous engagement with Marcus Borg's writings...

“That Christian faith is about belief is a rather odd notion, when you think about it. It suggests that what God really cares about is the beliefs in our heads— as if “believing the right things” is what God is most looking for, as if having “correct beliefs” is what will save us. And if you have “incorrect beliefs,” you may be in trouble. It’s remarkable to think that God cares so much about “beliefs.”

Moreover, when you think about it, faith as belief is relatively impotent, relatively powerless. You can believe all the right things and still be in bondage. You can believe all the right things and still be miserable. You can believe all the right things and still be relatively unchanged. Believing a set of claims to be true has very little transforming power.”

― Marcus J. Borg, The Heart of Christianity: Rediscovering a Life of Faith

I look forward to the much we have to do in 2024

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H.P. De Veer's avatar

This is really interesting quote Moomin...what do you recommend from Borg that I should read?

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Moomin Mama's avatar

He wrote many books, so I suggest you pick the 'frame' that most draws you forward. His solo authored works are very gentle, nuanced and inviting and his scholarly works are more detailed. I was first enticed by his explorations of 'the nature' of Jesus ( history &/or faith) In 'Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time,' plus the book of the quote I posted... and here's 'What is God?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6mfNv2h9bU if you want a quick, rich flavour of his 'voice.' He ends the video segment with a poem by Denise Levertov (which I can't resist including here) 'The Avowel'

As swimmers dare

to lie face to the sky

and water bears them,

as hawks rest upon air

and air sustains them,

so would I learn to attain

free fall, and float

into Creator Spirit’s deep embrace,

knowing no effort earns

that all-surrounding grace.

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KP's avatar

I’ve been there. But it was 15 years ago and I was a miserable atheist, realising that the logical conclusion of it was fundamentally nihilism. Reading Satre probably didn’t help much… not to mention the cognitive dissonance of my family being high-achieving scientists and devout and honest Catholics.

Jesus found me and helped me get over myself, along with St Augustine, St Thomas Aquinas, CS Lewis, Tolkien, St Hildegard of Bingen and Pope Benedict and John Paul II. Pope Benedict’s ‘Introduction to Christianity’ remains one of the best and most intellectually coherent introductions out there. I’d recommend it to a seeker who thinks they’re too smart for Christianity. Contrary to Benedict’s public reputation, he’s far from ferocious in his prose, but is an infinitely patient teacher who clearly loves his students.

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